Related to Hecata: I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I came accross this video related to the Hecata by the creator Matthew Dawkins, I like the work he has made on it (planting seed through some books) I know a lot of people don't like this but I suggest you check this video that I recently found:
Probably it won't change how people see them, but maybe it will clarify a bit the why it happens. For me this video confirm what I was thinking and trying to implement in the mod, they are not a clan, much more a faction of interests that needs to band together to survive. And I regret that they are the only one that remains independant, but that's another stuff.
My only reservation with the Hecata concept anyway is that one of the bloodlines (like the Harbingers of Skulls) could have remained out of the faction and plotted against them. Too much semplifications in V5 IMO....
My only reservation with the Hecata concept anyway is that one of the bloodlines (like the Harbingers of Skulls) could have remained out of the faction and plotted against them. Too much semplifications in V5 IMO....
I agree and not only for Hecata some clans should have stayed out of mandatory choice.
But the explanation for the Harbingers make sense and otherwise they will have been sent to gehena war or to "the sabbat are monsters" stuffs, at least they are still playable
Things I would have changed in V5: - kept the old disciplines (I don't mind merging them, I can't stand clans suddently have different ones like tzimisce losing auspex in favor of dominate) - lasombra not defecting en masse to the camarilla (really, wtf?) - made more clans playable (old assamites loyal to haqim, harbingers of skulls not sided with the hecata and instead hunting them, some of the old bloodlines....) - mantaining the independent alliance ( whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Independent_Alliance ) - the technophobia derived from the sudden second inquisition - no blood resonance mechanics - keeping the sabbat as they were
Things I would have changed in V5: - kept the old disciplines (I don't mind merging them, I can't stand clans suddently have different ones like tzimisce losing auspex in favor of dominate) - lasombra not defecting en masse to the camarilla (really, wtf?) - made more clans playable (old assamites loyal to haqim, harbingers of skulls not sided with the hecata and instead hunting them, some of the old bloodlines....) - mantaining the independent alliance ( whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Independent_Alliance ) - the technophobia derived from the sudden second inquisition - no blood resonance mechanics - keeping the sabbat as they were
I didn't know this, I don't know much about mind's eye theater, I just read the hengeyokai one, but mainly for the lore to see if they were some piece in it.
For the rest I agree, I prefer dark age, it avoid a lot of stuff that they tried to adress in v5.
I think that the Hecata are probably the things that appeal me the most but from Bloodlines and the possibilities it offer, I like the book, the Hecata part, not fan of the religion even if there is interesting things and also the one with Florence and the other small settings, those shows that the Hecata are not an happy familly and old grudge are still there.
Also the roleplay session on it by Red Moon roleplaying really convince me.
Related to Hecata: I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I came accross this video related to the Hecata by the creator Matthew Dawkins, I like the work he has made on it (planting seed through some books) I know a lot of people don't like this but I suggest you check this video that I recently found:
Probably it won't change how people see them, but maybe it will clarify a bit the why it happens. For me this video confirm what I was thinking and trying to implement in the mod, they are not a clan, much more a faction of interests that needs to band together to survive. And I regret that they are the only one that remains independant, but that's another stuff.
This just confirms part of my dislike with a LOT of things, not just in WoD: when you have no oversight and everyone can take "certain liberties", you start contradicting other materials and end up in a point where you need to act like a Diplomat¹ to explain why you took some actions that were even more absurd than before.
Imagine you have a company, with a lot of departments, and each and every one of them can dictate it's own methods and what it does and doesn't need for and from other departments. Can you see the mess that is bound to happen? Liberty in creativity creates beautiful things, but when you already have a baseline, too much liberty ends in creating a mess that will be hard to clean up (if it is cleanable - not the case in old WoD with every piece of contradiction remaining canon, thus the changes).
And yes, this IS my take, not yours, not it should be. But the video illustrates marvelously why I have a LOT of problems with the scenario after 1st edition (yes, for me it starts at the first edition of the Player's [Guide? Book? forgot], when the whole mess with the Giovanni and Tremere started).
PS: Does he really needs to say every so often that he wrote the books? One time should be enough, who is he trying to convince? Ok, dude, you wrote them, stop repeating that - I think I know why you had problem making friends while working...
--
¹: Someone that tells you to go fuck yourself in such a way that makes you happy to start doing it.
Related to Hecata: I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I came accross this video related to the Hecata by the creator Matthew Dawkins, I like the work he has made on it (planting seed through some books) I know a lot of people don't like this but I suggest you check this video that I recently found:
Probably it won't change how people see them, but maybe it will clarify a bit the why it happens. For me this video confirm what I was thinking and trying to implement in the mod, they are not a clan, much more a faction of interests that needs to band together to survive. And I regret that they are the only one that remains independant, but that's another stuff.
This just confirms part of my dislike with a LOT of things, not just in WoD: when you have no oversight and everyone can take "certain liberties", you start contradicting other materials and end up in a point where you need to act like a Diplomat¹ to explain why you took some actions that were even more absurd than before.
Imagine you have a company, with a lot of departments, and each and every one of them can dictate it's own methods and what it does and doesn't need for and from other departments. Can you see the mess that is bound to happen? Liberty in creativity creates beautiful things, but when you already have a baseline, too much liberty ends in creating a mess that will be hard to clean up (if it is cleanable - not the case in old WoD with every piece of contradiction remaining canon, thus the changes).
And yes, this IS my take, not yours, not it should be. But the video illustrates marvelously why I have a LOT of problems with the scenario after 1st edition (yes, for me it starts at the first edition of the Player's [Guide? Book? forgot], when the whole mess with the Giovanni and Tremere started).
PS: Does he really needs to say every so often that he wrote the books? One time should be enough, who is he trying to convince? Ok, dude, you wrote them, stop repeating that - I think I know why you had problem making friends while working...
--
¹: Someone that tells you to go fuck yourself in such a way that makes you happy to start doing it.
I know and that's why company like Blizzard or Riot start to have a "Lore Departement" even if they don't have as much lore as the Wod for example, it seems this things is kinda new for some companies.
But let's be honest all of this started with White Wolf dispatching one paragraph on one subject on a lot of book (for the Meta-Plot) and the fact that the ip as been traveling in different arms doesn't help.
Now it is really a librarian job to make a coherent world settings, we don't have an Ed. Greenwood (and even DnD screw it with the plague and so on).
I remember when Paradox send a survey and the last question was on the politic opinion which I personally don't like as we are speaking of roleplay, so the things that they were ready to chop all that was not/less appealing to the community make sense and we end up with something that appeal 50% of the market (number made by me) on an excel spreadsheet that has created this.
I really don't know how to solve the issue except buying the ip and have the v20 /v5 running in parallel the time that the comunity decide by itself by the numbers of sell.
I know this is a v5 hate thread but some people like it and have buy it, I don't want that they end in the same situation than me, not able to buy their product because someone decide to force the change on a newer version.
But I think Onyx Path managed better the v20 in term of Lore and community than the Paradox/Renegade v5, so maybe that's a hint on how to heal/have direction.
Greed is not good in term of creation and usually end up in this.
For the guy, I don't judge, I don't know him personally but I know he has some good video on Lore, explanation and he is a better ST than me, like this Red Moon things is something, even if I know that's "professional player" but they are source of inspiration/situation which is cool if you want to tell stories.
I really like his work on Beckett's Diary which I think is a good meta-plot book.
I guess that's his view but at least we let's say have the 2 side of the stories, I linked the video for this purpose, I think it is fair.
I don't want V5 to go away - if people like a game, why should we get rid of it? - but I don't want the old WoD to go away. And, like you, I do agree we should have both. Why can't we have what we fell in love with?
I think I'm going to echo many opinions but - aside from some interesting sourcebooks like the romance one which I got pleasantly surprised by - I think V20 is essentially perfect and V5 has many intrinsic, socially, and immersive-breaking issues - especially when you try to believe in the world they tried to create after the organized lore we had in V20.
I just can't bring myself to play it.
But I do try to see what I like (like the romance sourcebook) and pretennd it's for V20.
Last Edit: Apr 11, 2024 14:24:37 GMT by nightrevolt
Also, I do think the system rules are interesting - but I think V20 is just the right balance of simple yet effective when it comes to storyteller systems - I got used to it and I think its fine the way it is.
Of course, it's not perfect and it can be easily broken, but I tend to try to play with players that value immersion, ''realism'', over powergaming.
If you respect the system, it works perfectly and in a way that is easy even for newcomers to understand.
And I deeply value that and try to play with people that see it the same way.
Last Edit: Apr 11, 2024 14:21:39 GMT by nightrevolt
Social Media