VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration

Rendara
Independent

Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 11, 2024 18:24:53 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Oct 11, 2024 18:24:53 GMT

I feel slightly embarassed to be asking this, but how do you control global illumination in Hammer? I'm trying to make a second Deathmatch map and everything was dark until I added a light_environment. However now local light sources don't push shadows correctly. I want a basic outdoor night sky like all the vanilla hub areas have. Couldn't find anything in the vanilla decomp maps...

MooCHa
Elder

Posts: 760

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 11, 2024 18:30:48 GMT Rendara likes this

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Post by MooCHa on Oct 11, 2024 18:30:48 GMT

Oct 11, 2024 18:24:53 GMT Rendara said:

I feel slightly embarassed to be asking this, but how do you control global illumination in Hammer? I'm trying to make a second Deathmatch map and everything was dark until I added a light_environment. However now local light sources don't push shadows correctly. I want a basic outdoor night sky like all the vanilla hub areas have. Couldn't find anything in the vanilla decomp maps...

Screw being embarrassed..

Sadly I don't know but look like a few videos on YT that may help you out. Hopefully this one can help.

Only interested in the people here.

wallit
Ancilla

Posts: 239

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 12, 2024 10:50:53 GMT MooCHa and Rendara like this

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Post by wallit on Oct 12, 2024 10:50:53 GMT

Oct 11, 2024 18:24:53 GMT Rendara said:

I feel slightly embarassed to be asking this, but how do you control global illumination in Hammer? I'm trying to make a second Deathmatch map and everything was dark until I added a light_environment. However now local light sources don't push shadows correctly. I want a basic outdoor night sky like all the vanilla hub areas have. Couldn't find anything in the vanilla decomp maps...

Copy paste the one from sp_giovanni for example or sm_ocean.

Also in the modding help section there is a link with all map parameters for the skyboxes.

After there is some tweak for the compilation in the map property, I find that putting as twice brighter give nearly the same result as the original map.

Hope it helps.

Rendara Independent Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer Posts: 137	VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 12, 2024 18:09:49 GMT MooCHa likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Rendara on Oct 12, 2024 18:09:49 GMT Thanks guys, I got it in the end. i.ibb.co/0f2HTxt/map.png

wallit
Ancilla

Posts: 239

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 15, 2024 12:56:02 GMT

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Post by wallit on Oct 15, 2024 12:56:02 GMT

Aug 24, 2024 11:57:36 GMT Caedia Veness said:

Aug 24, 2024 11:40:05 GMT Rendara said:

Thanks for the in-depth reply.

First of all, I had a little snoop around Project Vaulderie. Their website is long gone, it seems, but I found a couple of videos on their YT channel of the multiplayer in action. Very impressive, I wish it hadn't been C&D'd.

Anyway, I'm interested in reading more. Apart from what you've told me, is there a collection of their planned multiplayer features archived somewhere?

You raise some interesting ideas, let me go through them quickly:

1. I had high hopes for custom colors, NPCs and players have top/bottom color properties (like in Half-Life 2), however there seems to be no method to change them from in-game, so this is probably impossible.

2. I'm planning three gamemodes at present - Deathmatch, Counter-Bite, and Coop. Counter-Bite is an explicitly human (hunter) vs vampire team mode so hopefully that fulfills that niche.

3. Disciplines as a collectable is a wonderful idea and what I wanted to do this for Deathmatch from the start (amongst other fun power-ups), unfortunately any sort of character sheet alteration lags the server badly, so Deathmatch just has weapon pickups at the moment. Even weapon pickups can cause little stutters, type "net_graph 2" in the console to see how rough it can get. I'm trying to optimize the player ID code so that calling methods on player stats doesn't make for a miserable experience, please bear with me here.

4. The skin/model selector is a great idea and feels completely in line with the range of models available in Half-Life multiplayer. This is one reason why I'm doing the launcher sooner rather than later - so everyone can browse the full list of human/vampire models and pick who they want! As for importing models, I'm not sure how this would work for Bloodlines. Any asset needs to exist clientside too. This requires further consideration on my part.

5. I understand the desire for roleplay. I have to be blunt though - the Bloodlines multiplayer is not exactly conducive to multiplayer RP. A staggering number of features that should be no brainers crumble under pressure when a server is running. Dialogue and non-combat NPC interactions? Broken. Audio? Sometimes bad enough to crash. Advanced VPhysics interactions / complex geometry? Always bad enough to crash. This is why Coop is being designed for PvE/environmental puzzles with light RP elements, in lieu of a full cooperative RP mode. I've not had the pleasure of playing Redemption multiplayer as of yet, but it sounds far more in-depth than Bloodlines multiplayer could ever hope to be.

Let me say this, though - we finally have PvP damage and significant stability improvements, even the host can play now! The Bloodlines engine fights me at every turn, but the game is worth it, and I'm stubborn. If there exists a large interest in RP after Deathmatch and Counter-Bite are feature complete and polished, I'll do it, somehow.

Bloodlines wouldn't be particularly feasible or ideal for detailed multiplayer roleplay unless you were somehow able to permit dialogue interactions between players, although if you were somehow capable of manipulating the engine to the extent that a player could press a button to initiate dialogue with another player, and if chat messages between them could then be typed into the console and appear in the dialogue box, that is essentially all which would be required. Unfortunately however, it sounds as if dialogues are entirely broken.

Any limitations on the ability to successfully ensure compatibility with maps featuring complex geometry also hinders the roleplay potentially, especially since roleplay-oriented maps would absolutely demand intricate features.

It might be worth attempting to contact AtrBlizzard in the Planet Vampire Discord server with regards to the other multiplayer features Project Vaulderie planned to incorporate, although since I have not been a part of the Planet Vampire Discord for nearly a year at this point, I have no idea if he is still available there. AtrBlizzard was of course the lead developer of Project Vaulderie.

I have tought a lot on this and have some questions and ideas:

For the communication a simple way would be to use a vocal canal on discord and use private message as whisper if needed that would be like at a tabletop, but something simple could be done is the emote, I think it is possible to create python command setting the origin of an interesting place to the player and run it, like emDance(0), emDance(1), emDrink(1), I am not sure but maybe it just need to include in the map one ip with the overide_parameter command, if not all ip for each player as to be include in the map.

Rendara, how the variable transfert works between map?

If I want to run a script (ie give a quest) would it works for all player?

If I include a cut scene in the map would it works for everyone?

If you change map can you keep the quest logs, items etc...?

And plenty other stuffs and stupid question but I don't have a clear view so practical case

A Tremere coterie doing the bishop quest.

You start at the Tremere chantry just arrived or whatever and Strauss ask you to solve this.

Would it be possible to have plenty of map (not the vanilla but some special for this mod) or would it require to have only one very huge map?

After I have plenty of others questions but it depends on the answers

Rendara
Independent

Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 15, 2024 14:56:18 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Oct 15, 2024 14:56:18 GMT

Oct 15, 2024 12:56:02 GMT wallit said:

I have tought a lot on this and have some questions and ideas:

For the communication a simple way would be to use a vocal canal on discord and use private message as whisper if needed that would be like at a tabletop, but something simple could be done is the emote, I think it is possible to create python command setting the origin of an interesting place to the player and run it, like emDance(0), emDance(1), emDrink(1), I am not sure but maybe it just need to include in the map one ip with the overide_parameter command, if not all ip for each player as to be include in the map.

Rendara , how the variable transfert works between map?

If I want to run a script (ie give a quest) would it works for all player?

If I include a cut scene in the map would it works for everyone?

If you change map can you keep the quest logs, items etc...?

And plenty other stuffs and stupid question but I don't have a clear view so practical case

A Tremere coterie doing the bishop quest.

You start at the Tremere chantry just arrived or whatever and Strauss ask you to solve this.

Would it be possible to have plenty of map (not the vanilla but some special for this mod) or would it require to have only one very huge map?

After I have plenty of others questions but it depends on the answers

Thank you for your interest, wallit. These are challenging questions so hopefully my answers satisfy you.

1. I'm aware that most people playing a (hypothetical) multiplayer Bloodlines RP would be in a Discord call. However, there still needs to be a text chat as part of the game executable. I've already laid the foundations for this by turning the console into a rudimentary "chat box", the basic version of which should be coming in the next update.

2. Yes, emotes should be possible, assuming I can disable the third person view on an engine level (third person mode causes a rendering CTD when in a server). I think there's a mod that disables the third person for melee so I'm confident that this is a feasible feature.

3. "Variable transfer" between maps is non-existent because you cannot change maps while a server is running, the engine logic simply does not exist for multiplayer map switching unfortunately.

4. "If I want to run a script (ie give a quest) would it works for all player?"

The short answer is "no" but the real answer is "it depends on the function". This is a complicated topic for Bloodlines multiplayer that I intend to document in public eventually, so that people can make their own maps and content.

To answer your example of "giving a quest", no, that won't work with the native engine functions. Only the host is fully exposed to quests and dialogue. Clients are effectively invisible to quest and dialogue operations.

5. "If I include a cut scene in the map would it works for everyone?"

This doesn't sound viable, it would likely crash the game by either:
a) Confusing the engine by feeding more than one player into a cutscene function that only accepts a single player as a parameter.
b) Overflowing the renderer. Any kind of camera operation in a server makes the renderer freak out and usually ends in a CTD.

However I have not actually tested this, so it may work after all! I'll try it this week and tell you how it goes.

6. "If you change map can you keep the quest logs, items etc...?"

As I said, map changing doesn't really work for multiplayer in this game.

Saving data for clients is a no-go as well.

BUT!

Behind the scenes I've been working on my own custom save and data management system just for the multiplayer, implemented exclusively with Python. What this means is essentially that all of the quest, item, etc data that you would expect to be persistent, is persistent. Then all a host needs to do is close the server, go back into the launcher, and rehost with a different map, and all the client data would be preserved when they join back

.

I will give an update on this when it is ready (or it has a problem that I need community advice to solve

). It's not a priority task at the moment because I'm coding the final Deathmatch rules and making the second Deathmatch map. I've spent seven months on a single mode and I really want to move on to Counter-Bite now, to be honest.

7. "A Tremere coterie doing the bishop quest.
You start at the Tremere chantry just arrived or whatever and Strauss ask you to solve this.
Would it be possible to have plenty of map (not the vanilla but some special for this mod) or would it require to have only one very huge map?"

If I'm understanding you correctly, are you asking if it would be possible for a Tremere coterie campaign, with lots of maps? The answer is "yes", assuming I can get this custom save/data management system implemented. As for the size of maps, my testing indicates the size of the maps has no impact on multiplayer performance, as long as they're well optimized. The client lag I've been wrestling with since the inception of this project is the fault of the engine code, not the maps.

So it might be an idea to make two or three small to medium sized areas all connect with teleports to minimize the amount of server downtime when switching maps. The vanilla game already does this sometimes with the Ventrue tower elevator, for example.

Rendara Independent Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer Posts: 137	VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 15, 2024 15:01:01 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Rendara on Oct 15, 2024 15:01:01 GMT Also, if there are any skilled mappers who are interested in making maps for Deathmatch or Counter-Bite, please message me. I expect most of you are busy working on Prelude or War Games or LA By Night though .

wallit
Ancilla

Posts: 239

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Oct 15, 2024 17:39:59 GMT Rendara likes this

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Post by wallit on Oct 15, 2024 17:39:59 GMT

Oct 15, 2024 14:56:18 GMT Rendara said: