VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration

MooCHa
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VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 1, 2024 22:50:26 GMT Rendara likes this

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Post by MooCHa on Aug 1, 2024 22:50:26 GMT

Aug 1, 2024 16:34:00 GMT Rendara said:

Version 1.4 is out on Nexus and it's a pretty major update, we now have full ragdoll support for all male/female models, weapons dropping on death, power-ups around the map, an end of game "highest scorer" message, and a few other things. Lots of file restructuring in preparation for "Counter-Bite", as well.

I'm also (tentatively) drafting plans for an eventual coop mode. My focus is entirely on the PvP modes at the moment, however when Deathmatch and Counter-Bite are both feature complete, as stable as possible, and have a couple of maps each, I'd like to see what can be done for coop. PvE would be very easy to implement with the current systems however the more interesting option would be a full coop campaign of some kind! We shall see how it goes, of course...

Finally, for the time being, I've decided to stop looking into the lag and to focus on new features instead. After spending every spare evening for a month systemically testing potential solutions, I'm quite certain that this is an engine problem that simply cannot be fixed. I'd love to be proven wrong though, and I'm still looking for anyone with suggestions to get in touch.

Thank you for reading!

No thanks. I cant wait to shout at Wesp5 online haha.

oOOF!

Only interested in the people here.

Rendara
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Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 2, 2024 11:24:01 GMT Strawberry_milk likes this

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Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 11:24:01 GMT

Aug 1, 2024 19:45:41 GMT Wesp5 said:

Aug 1, 2024 16:34:00 GMT Rendara said:

PvE would be very easy to implement with the current systems however the more interesting option would be a full coop campaign of some kind! We shall see how it goes, of course...

For PvE you should take a look at my small hunter campaign which showed some easy to do combat missions. Also like the hunters defended their monestary, Camarilla vampires could defend the Venture Tower against the Sabbat, or the Anarchs could defend the Chateau Hotel against the Camarilla.

I did play your hunter missions, they were fun. Actually, I played them twice with different characters because I wanted to experiment with numina.

Regarding the PvE story scenario, I thought the same as you. There is already a loose narrative justification for the multiplayer along these lines, as a matter of fact.

The idea is that the Deathmatch multiplayer games take place after the main story of Bloodlines as various groups skirmish for control. In my "Tower" map for example, I imagine the reason that it's a complete free-for-all is because wannabe diablerist vampires are tearing each other apart looking for the sarcophagus after the finale. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean the sarcophagus is still there, but they don't know that

.

For Counter-Bite, the premise is naturally vampires versus hunters, playing objective on the sarcophagus. Basically every detail of this mode is coming from Tim Cain because I want it to be as accurate of a restoration as possible (like what you guys do for the UP restored content), so there isn't a ton of wiggle room. I'm not sure where this could be timeline-wise, but the general concept is that the sarcophagus is being held by the Society of Leopold and/or Camarilla at various locations (different maps) around Los Angeles.

Not that it really matters, of course, this is simply background text to justify these multiplayer matches in-universe. A lot of primarily singleplayer games with multiplayer modes don't even justify their multiplayer in story so I'm not too hung up on this.

Back to what could be done for coop, another idea I had was making levels that de-emphasize combat and put more focus on solving various environmental/objective problems that require coordination to progress. Something like a couple of vampires escaping from another wing of the Fu Syndicate building would be a perfect scenario for this (I'm a big fan of Portal 2 and the coop campaign in that game, if it wasn't already obvious

).

In my opinion cooperative play is most memorable when it gets players to communicate/coordinate and I think this kind of design is more conducive to that.

Last Edit: Aug 2, 2024 11:26:04 GMT by Rendara

Wesp5
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Unofficial Patch Creator

Fixing Bloodlines

Posts: 265

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 2, 2024 17:39:58 GMT

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Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 17:39:58 GMT

Okay, I did a quick test of the latest version and found two issues:

- I rebound the jump key and when I jumped the game crashed. I thought you'd prevented anybody from jumping?
- What are the etheral fires for, are they spawn points? Because their noculling is wrong when seen from windows.

Last Edit: Aug 2, 2024 17:40:23 GMT by Wesp5

Rendara
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Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 2, 2024 18:44:39 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 18:44:39 GMT

Aug 2, 2024 17:39:58 GMT Wesp5 said:

Okay, I did a quick test of the latest version and found two issues:

- I rebound the jump key and when I jumped the game crashed. I thought you'd prevented anybody from jumping?
- What are the etheral fires for, are they spawn points? Because their noculling is wrong when seen from windows.

1. The "prevention" I told you about in May was the high gravity method, which was reworked. It is still possible to jump so I rebound the SPACE key to the "Ready up" function from the first public release onwards. Jumping will almost certainly never be reimplemented without the engine-level code, the VPhysics crash isn't fixable from Python alone, this is one of the unfortunate compromises necessary to make multiplayer possible.

I've left a warning in the Nexus description since version 1.1 to stop people from rebinding their controls for this reason, there are a few other keybind commands that crash the game too. By the way, is it possible to remove the "Control" tab from the game options? If it wasn't there, I wouldn't have to put a disclaimer for this in the description, since the rebinding options wouldn't appear in the menu at all!

2. The spawn points are invisible. The ghost fires function as weapon dispensers, until I figure out how to reset player stats between rounds.

The culling and transparencies on the windows are indeed broken, they actually look even more degraded clientside... I think I'd need to rebuild the cubemaps by hand to fix this, which I have no idea how to do. This is also why there are no bullet decals. This map was built off an existing map so recompiling it with a bunch of entities purged and a few new ones added probably ruined the effects somehow.

The next maps will be built completely from the ground up to avoid this in future.

Wesp5
Moderator

Unofficial Patch Creator

Fixing Bloodlines

Posts: 265

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 2, 2024 19:13:22 GMT

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Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 19:13:22 GMT

Aug 2, 2024 18:44:39 GMT Rendara said:

By the way, is it possible to remove the "Control" tab from the game options?

I don't think so and people would hate it anyway, if they would not be able to rebind their keys. But it's easy to remove JUMP from that list, which is defined in scripts/kb_act.lst!

The ghost fires function as weapon dispensers, until I figure out how to reset player stats between rounds.

You should play a message that you get a new weapon, I never noticed. As for the culling, just take a look a the textures and play around with nocull, alpha and other parameters.

It's quite common for multiplayer games to have respawning weapons, but maybe you could spin ghosts of models instead of big particles or use smaller ones like the Prelude traps.

Last Edit: Aug 2, 2024 19:23:40 GMT by Wesp5

Rendara
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Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 2, 2024 19:25:27 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 19:25:27 GMT

Aug 2, 2024 19:13:22 GMT Wesp5 said:

Aug 2, 2024 18:44:39 GMT Rendara said:

By the way, is it possible to remove the "Control" tab from the game options?

I don't think so and people would hate it anyway, if they would not be able to rebind their keys. But it's easy to remove JUMP from that list, which is defined in scripts/kb_act.lst!

The ghost fires function as weapon dispensers, until I figure out how to reset player stats between rounds.

I never found a weapon there though, do I need to step inside and wait? As for the culling, just take a look a the textures and play around with nocull, alpha and other parameters.

I'll look into kb_act.lst, sounds promising. Thanks!

No, you'll get the weapon in your inventory immediately from walking through the flames. You might not have noticed, though, because "Item Gained" notifications are disabled (because I use quest items as flags for client states and it would get very annoying seeing the popup all the time). If you press F1 you can cycle through your guns. The flames will die down and come back after 20 seconds, and the dispenser trigger will become active again.

Wesp5 Moderator Unofficial Patch Creator Fixing Bloodlines Posts: 265	VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 2, 2024 19:55:35 GMT Rendara likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 19:55:35 GMT Yeah, I figured out the weapon thing in the meantime, see my edited post. But you need to have some feedback there, maybe just an item gained sound when the particles vanish?

Rendara
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Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 2, 2024 20:23:47 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 20:23:47 GMT

That should be doable, although like many parts of the engine, the audio drivers are quite broken for Bloodlines when used for multiplayer. I can't even begin to tell you all the different problems with sound at the moment.
Perhaps a simple game_text would be better after the weapon is added?

Wesp5
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Fixing Bloodlines

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VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 3, 2024 17:09:30 GMT Rendara likes this

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Post by Wesp5 on Aug 3, 2024 17:09:30 GMT

Aug 2, 2024 20:23:47 GMT Rendara said:

Perhaps a simple game_text would be better after the weapon is added?

Yes. Also you might think about using a smaller particle like the Prelude one especially as the original etheral fire would kill you

!

Last Edit: Aug 3, 2024 17:10:40 GMT by Wesp5

Rendara
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Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 12, 2024 19:47:39 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Aug 12, 2024 19:47:39 GMT

We have a little "Weapon gained!" text notification now. I've also updated the key binding settings. Now any key used for multiplayer can be rebound to almost anything else. However, there are a few keys (such as SPACE, Ctrl, Tab, etc) that are critical to client management and need to be reserved at all times. I've already taken all unnecessary/broken commands out of kb_act.lst (thanks Wesp), but is there a way to stop specific keys themselves from being used in/as bindings?

Also, is there a way to automatically skip the opening movies without deleting the files, renaming the folder, or using the -dev parameter? (The -dev param gives environment information on dropped bullets and some particles so I don't want to use it).
How does the Bloodlines Hammer skip the movies? That should be perfect.

Wesp5
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Unofficial Patch Creator

Fixing Bloodlines

Posts: 265

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 12, 2024 21:03:50 GMT

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Post by Wesp5 on Aug 12, 2024 21:03:50 GMT

Aug 12, 2024 19:47:39 GMT Rendara said:

However, there are a few keys (such as SPACE, Ctrl, Tab, etc) that are critical to client management and need to be reserved at all times.

Why this? All of them are part of my usual setup and if I can't bind them like I want them I will probably never play multiplayer Bloodlines.

Rendara
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Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 12, 2024 23:45:32 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Aug 12, 2024 23:45:32 GMT

Aug 12, 2024 21:03:50 GMT Wesp5 said:

Aug 12, 2024 19:47:39 GMT Rendara said:

However, there are a few keys (such as SPACE, Ctrl, Tab, etc) that are critical to client management and need to be reserved at all times.

Why this? All of them are part of my usual setup and if I can't bind them like I want them I will probably never play multiplayer Bloodlines.

These keys are hardcoded to set client item flags and/or call functions - see the autoexec.cfg and deathmatch.py script if you care enough, it's hard to explain over text.

If these keys are overwritten or bound to another command, then the multiplayer functionality falls apart.

The host (server) can't interpret certain commands natively, they need to be sent as part of an input packet to the host console with a cmd prefix in order to be recognised, this is why we have these inputs on the clientside in the first place. Hardcoding them is just the unfortunate reality of the situation.

Although, now that I think on it, since I've got the rebindings figured out, maybe it would be possible to set the commands as bindings in the control menu via the kb_act.lst? Then, that preserves the command bindings, and everyone can rebind with no restriction.

I'll do an experiment with this tomorrow, the only problem would be I'd have to rework how the ready command works, because that needs to "unbind" itself after firing once to stop people from accidentally toggling off the setup commands.

Last Edit: Aug 12, 2024 23:52:53 GMT by Rendara

Wesp5
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Fixing Bloodlines

Posts: 265

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 13, 2024 8:01:34 GMT MooCHa and Rendara like this

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Post by Wesp5 on Aug 13, 2024 8:01:34 GMT

Aug 12, 2024 23:45:32 GMT Rendara said:

Although, now that I think on it, since I've got the rebindings figured out, maybe it would be possible to set the commands as bindings in the control menu via the kb_act.lst? Then, that preserves the command bindings, and everyone can rebind with no restriction.

That would be the better solution. If you really can't figure this out, you should bind some rarely used keys to these commands and not basic keys like SPACE, CTRL or TAB which most players will have in their personal setup for years!

Rendara
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Restoring the Vampire Bloodlines multiplayer

Posts: 137

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 16, 2024 20:12:49 GMT

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Post by Rendara on Aug 16, 2024 20:12:49 GMT

Wesp, I'd like to ask for your advice, since you seemed upset at the lack of rebinding. All the keys are now possible to rebind (a huge step in and of itself

) except for the "Ready up" command, because there is no "cmd"-able command to unbind by binding itself (you can only bind or unbind by key). I have tried many methods to get this to be a one-shot input but the limitations of the engine are rearing their ugly heads again.
So, what key do you think would be the least intrusive and/or least wanted, for the purposes of a hardcoded input?

Last Edit: Aug 16, 2024 20:14:37 GMT by Rendara

Wesp5
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Unofficial Patch Creator

Fixing Bloodlines

Posts: 265

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration Aug 16, 2024 20:30:35 GMT Rendara likes this

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Post by Wesp5 on Aug 16, 2024 20:30:35 GMT

Aug 16, 2024 20:12:49 GMT Rendara said:

So, what key do you think would be the least intrusive and/or least wanted, for the purposes of a hardcoded input?

For me, and probably all the WASD crows something on the other side of the keyboard should be fine, like ENTER.

VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration

Post by MooCHa on Aug 1, 2024 22:50:26 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 11:24:01 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 17:39:58 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 18:44:39 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 19:13:22 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 19:25:27 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 19:55:35 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 20:23:47 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 3, 2024 17:09:30 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 12, 2024 19:47:39 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 12, 2024 21:03:50 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 12, 2024 23:45:32 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 13, 2024 8:01:34 GMT

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Post by Wesp5 on Aug 16, 2024 20:30:35 GMT

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VTMBMP - Multiplayer restoration

Post by MooCHa on Aug 1, 2024 22:50:26 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 11:24:01 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 17:39:58 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 18:44:39 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 19:13:22 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 19:25:27 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 2, 2024 19:55:35 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 2, 2024 20:23:47 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 3, 2024 17:09:30 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 12, 2024 19:47:39 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 12, 2024 21:03:50 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 12, 2024 23:45:32 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 13, 2024 8:01:34 GMT

Post by Rendara on Aug 16, 2024 20:12:49 GMT

Post by Wesp5 on Aug 16, 2024 20:30:35 GMT

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