Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter

ilex
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Posts: 30

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 9, 2024 11:46:06 GMT

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Post by ilex on Apr 9, 2024 11:46:06 GMT

The Source Engine has a bone weight limit of three bones. The minimum weight you can assign is 5%. Both 4+ assigned bones and weights below 5% will get culled at compile time, damaging your rigging. You should stay within these limits when rigging. (Yes, I learned this the hard way.)

Oops, completely forgot to explain this. Added it to the guide now.

argikt Neonate Posts: 148	Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 9, 2024 12:40:52 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by argikt on Apr 9, 2024 12:40:52 GMT Guys! you're amazing. Lastest models that I saw for vanilla and others mods are clearly superior to vanilla. And you keep improving! WoW!

MooCHa
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Posts: 767

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 9, 2024 21:11:13 GMT

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Post by MooCHa on Apr 9, 2024 21:11:13 GMT

ilex

All good on this rig.

I did a 'parent auto weights' quick test on my Gaming PC and it is my other rig(installs) that were issue. Auto weights don't play nice on this but is good for a quick test.

I knew 5950x system was playing up.

Only interested in the people here.

ilex Fledgling Posts: 30	Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 9, 2024 23:40:42 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ilex on Apr 9, 2024 23:40:42 GMT Good. Wish we had a more specific cause so we had better advice than "re-install everything" if someone runs into issues like this, but that's IT for you.

MooCHa
Elder

Posts: 767

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 10, 2024 13:24:53 GMT

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Post by MooCHa on Apr 10, 2024 13:24:53 GMT

Apr 9, 2024 23:40:42 GMT ilex said:

Good. Wish we had a more specific cause so we had better advice than "re-install everything" if someone runs into issues like this, but that's IT for you.

I'm not letting this go but I'll need time to look into it as quite a busy week.

My belief is only ever install one SDK install ever and don't have issues!

I think the issue is using more than one sdk and when I had an issue with menu not loading for sdk I tried to install another from different installs and along the way paths etc have become screwed up due to me mixing and matching. I don't think Installing Other Bloodlines installs helped

I moved over my Damsel files to compile on the problem PC this morning and failed so there is a path issue somewhere. I can see it.

I even moved over the crowbar settings file from AppData\Roaming\ZeqMacaw\CroVtMB 0.65 from other PC and edited the paths accordingly to reflect them on this PC but decided enough is enough and I've uninstalled Bloodlines and used revo uninstaller to clean up a bit.

I'm running a reg cleaner just to see what issues arise. I'm not cleaning all with it but may find a path or 2 I can select manually related to VtMB. I have indeed found many registry entries just now from many installs so I'm going to delete those as I have no installs whatsoever on this PC now.

I'll reinstall and mimic path from other PC just in case so I can just drop that crowbars settings file in with ease if last resort.

Last Edit: Apr 10, 2024 13:26:25 GMT by MooCHa

Only interested in the people here.

MooCHa
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Posts: 767

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 10, 2024 15:52:52 GMT

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Post by MooCHa on Apr 10, 2024 15:52:52 GMT

This is such a head fook. I know it's to do with crowbar on this system and related in some way.

I've just redone Damsel on Trem fem 2 quickly, no go on this pc but I stick the files on USB Flash Drive, xfer them, and it compiled fine on the gaming pc and no issues on Char select in game..

One thing I did notice is it isn't putting a .phy in Brujah armor0 folder but the 3 other files appear on problem pc.

Can I pick this PC up and choose a wall to launch it at lol

Only interested in the people here.

MooCHa
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Posts: 767

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 12, 2024 16:14:13 GMT

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Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 16:14:13 GMT

I just had a thought but if anybody gets to the position of we can replace full NPC with different model them merge by distance / remove dupes could cause an issue fusing mouth closed with both lips fusing so might be a good idea not to use it neck up.

Only interested in the people here.

ilex
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Posts: 30

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 12, 2024 16:36:03 GMT MooCHa likes this

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Post by ilex on Apr 12, 2024 16:36:03 GMT

This is not a problem at all. The *.smd format takes the lips being fused specifically into account. The vertex animations are done with the lips slighty parted, and then one of them is the actual neutral expression.

developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Character_Facial_Animation_Shapekey_Set

MooCHa
Elder

Posts: 767

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 12, 2024 16:54:14 GMT

Quote

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 16:54:14 GMT

Apr 12, 2024 16:36:03 GMT ilex said:

This is not a problem at all. The *.smd format takes the lips being fused specifically into account. The vertex animations are done with the lips slighty parted, and then one of them is the actual neutral expression.

developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Character_Facial_Animation_Shapekey_Set

I'll be trying to avoid it if I can.

I guess, My Question is.

Has it been done with Bloodlines?

I have no clue if it has or not.

Last Edit: Apr 12, 2024 16:57:08 GMT by MooCHa

Only interested in the people here.

ilex
Fledgling

Posts: 30

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 12, 2024 17:51:38 GMT

Quote

Post by ilex on Apr 12, 2024 17:51:38 GMT

Apr 12, 2024 16:54:14 GMT MooCHa said:

Has it been done with Bloodlines?

I have no clue if it has or not.

Nope. To the best of my knowledge, no-one in the modding community knows how the vertex animations are encoded. Troika changed that, so it doesn't work the same as in other versions of Source. That's why we have no tools that can compile a model with working vertex animations.

There are a few ports of VTMB models for GMOD and SFM, uploaded to the Workshop by Atrblizzard. They have working vertex animations, but I have no idea how the project Vaulderie team got that data.

There was a person who reverse-engineered and decompiled the models, and shared them on the old forums. I've ported a few of those to SFM myself. But they never shared any of the information they learned, and they're long gone.

In any case, even with vertex animation data, we don't know how to compile that for VTMB. We're still stuck painting over existing NPC's to make new ones.

MooCHa
Elder

Posts: 767

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 12, 2024 18:19:28 GMT

Quote

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 18:19:28 GMT

Apr 12, 2024 17:51:38 GMT ilex said:

Apr 12, 2024 16:54:14 GMT MooCHa said:

Has it been done with Bloodlines?

I have no clue if it has or not.

Nope. To the best of my knowledge, no-one in the modding community knows how the vertex animations are encoded. Troika changed that, so it doesn't work the same as in other versions of Source. That's why we have no tools that can compile a model with working vertex animations.

There are a few ports of VTMB models for GMOD and SFM, uploaded to the Workshop by Atrblizzard. They have working vertex animations, but I have no idea how the project Vaulderie team got that data.

There was a person who reverse-engineered and decompiled the models, and shared them on the old forums. I've ported a few of those to SFM myself. But they never shared any of the information they learned, and they're long gone.

In any case, even with vertex animation data, we don't know how to compile that for VTMB. We're still stuck painting over existing NPC's to make new ones.

Sorry for being facetiously drunk. I know the whole animation stuff is a dumpster.

Could they have ported the models to GMOD and use their(Garrys Mod ) Skeletons? I dunno. My lad used to code and get pennies for that game in LUA like a good, good few years ago.

I actually have a huge disdain for people not sharing info.

Anyway, This might help down the line with try custom models

Bone heat issues: Blender 4.1

Select object , go to vertex model(Hit Tab), Press A to select all verts, Hit P select > by loose parts

Go back to object mode and select the object then the skeleton (both selected in order) and do Auto weights. It will not be nice but Issue resolved(do own weights) etc. Remember to do all transformations to set/ axis scale etc prior to this.

Last Edit: Apr 12, 2024 18:21:56 GMT by MooCHa

Only interested in the people here.

wallit
Ancilla

Posts: 275

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 12, 2024 20:26:27 GMT

Quote

Post by wallit on Apr 12, 2024 20:26:27 GMT

Apr 12, 2024 17:51:38 GMT ilex said:

Apr 12, 2024 16:54:14 GMT MooCHa said:

Has it been done with Bloodlines?

I have no clue if it has or not.

Nope. To the best of my knowledge, no-one in the modding community knows how the vertex animations are encoded. Troika changed that, so it doesn't work the same as in other versions of Source. That's why we have no tools that can compile a model with working vertex animations.

There are a few ports of VTMB models for GMOD and SFM, uploaded to the Workshop by Atrblizzard. They have working vertex animations, but I have no idea how the project Vaulderie team got that data.

There was a person who reverse-engineered and decompiled the models, and shared them on the old forums. I've ported a few of those to SFM myself. But they never shared any of the information they learned, and they're long gone.

In any case, even with vertex animation data, we don't know how to compile that for VTMB. We're still stuck painting over existing NPC's to make new ones.

Just a noob question again, that's mean it is possible to reverse engineer them and also after to be able to understand how it works (at least theorically) if I have understood a bit but after we know how they work, what do we do with this information, I mean you know better than me, so what could be the outcome, we could convert model from every where? We could redo the animation? We solve our model problem?

When we solve this is it the end of the model problem?

ilex
Fledgling

Posts: 30

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 13, 2024 11:49:36 GMT

Quote

Post by ilex on Apr 13, 2024 11:49:36 GMT

I know a bunch of stuff I learned from other people ~~because I've been on the internet too long~~. My knowledge of the inner workings of the Source engine and the MDL format in particular are actually pretty poor.

Anyway. In theory, if someone reverse-engineered the rest of MDL v2531, that information could be used to write a proper decompiler/compiler. Then we could change, replace and/or add anything related to the models. This is actually Pshyco-A's stated goal with the Unofficial SDK.

That's in theory. In practice, we don't have this, and there's no way of knowing if anyone is going to do the work in future. I'm sure past and present modders have tried.

MooCHa
Elder

Posts: 767

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 13, 2024 13:19:44 GMT

Quote

Post by MooCHa on Apr 13, 2024 13:19:44 GMT

Apr 13, 2024 11:49:36 GMT ilex said:

I know a bunch of stuff I learned from other people ~~because I've been on the internet too long~~. My knowledge of the inner workings of the Source engine and the MDL format in particular are actually pretty poor.

Anyway. In theory, if someone reverse-engineered the rest of MDL v2531, that information could be used to write a proper decompiler/compiler. Then we could change, replace and/or add anything related to the models. This is actually Pshyco-A's stated goal with the Unofficial SDK.

That's in theory. In practice, we don't have this, and there's no way of knowing if anyone is going to do the work in future. I'm sure past and present modders have tried.

I'm sure DDLullu / Psycho-A / ArtB threw a lot at this and the same with others and still no cherry.

I'm happy that things got to where they are.

Only interested in the people here.

wallit
Ancilla

Posts: 275

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter Apr 13, 2024 14:00:24 GMT

Quote

Post by wallit on Apr 13, 2024 14:00:24 GMT

Apr 13, 2024 13:19:44 GMT MooCHa said:

Apr 13, 2024 11:49:36 GMT ilex said:

I know a bunch of stuff I learned from other people ~~because I've been on the internet too long~~. My knowledge of the inner workings of the Source engine and the MDL format in particular are actually pretty poor.

Anyway. In theory, if someone reverse-engineered the rest of MDL v2531, that information could be used to write a proper decompiler/compiler. Then we could change, replace and/or add anything related to the models. This is actually Pshyco-A's stated goal with the Unofficial SDK.

That's in theory. In practice, we don't have this, and there's no way of knowing if anyone is going to do the work in future. I'm sure past and present modders have tried.

I'm sure DDLullu / Psycho-A / ArtB threw a lot at this and the same with others and still no cherry.

I'm happy that things got to where they are.

I could give it a try with my old university, see if someone could be interested in such project.

Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter

Post by ilex on Apr 9, 2024 11:46:06 GMT

Post by argikt on Apr 9, 2024 12:40:52 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 9, 2024 21:11:13 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 9, 2024 23:40:42 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 10, 2024 13:24:53 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 10, 2024 15:52:52 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 16:14:13 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 12, 2024 16:36:03 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 16:54:14 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 12, 2024 17:51:38 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 18:19:28 GMT

Post by wallit on Apr 12, 2024 20:26:27 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 13, 2024 11:49:36 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 13, 2024 13:19:44 GMT

Post by wallit on Apr 13, 2024 14:00:24 GMT

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Compiling a custom PC model with DDLullu's MDL Formatter

Post by ilex on Apr 9, 2024 11:46:06 GMT

Post by argikt on Apr 9, 2024 12:40:52 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 9, 2024 21:11:13 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 9, 2024 23:40:42 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 10, 2024 13:24:53 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 10, 2024 15:52:52 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 16:14:13 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 12, 2024 16:36:03 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 16:54:14 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 12, 2024 17:51:38 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 12, 2024 18:19:28 GMT

Post by wallit on Apr 12, 2024 20:26:27 GMT

Post by ilex on Apr 13, 2024 11:49:36 GMT

Post by MooCHa on Apr 13, 2024 13:19:44 GMT

Post by wallit on Apr 13, 2024 14:00:24 GMT

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