Post by superbeast on Feb 25, 2024 7:57:00 GMT
hey all,
some of you may have seen my vtm v5 hate thread post mentioning viscissitude and Some Interesting Questions with it, i just wanted to point out a question or two i had my tzimisce autarkis player ask me !
Page 241 of the V20 CRB STATES: "When a Kindred uses Vicissitude to alter mortals, ghouls, and vampires of higher Generation, the effects of the power are permanent; vampires of equal or lower Generation can choose to heal the effects of Vicissitude as though they were aggravated wounds."
sounds fine at first, right? okay, well, the level 3 dot of Viscissitude, bonecraft, says the following: "Bonecraft may be used without the flesh-shaping arts, as an offensive weapon. Each success scored on the Strength + Medicine roll (difficulty 7) inflicts one health level of lethal damage on the victim, as his bones rip, puncture, and slice their way out of his skin."
so... if alterations are permanent... is this... permanent damage? the obvious answer from a balance perspective is "no" and i imagine the white wolf writers agree with me on that. maybe "alteration" is a specific thing and tzimisce can also do temporary arts? my explanation to my player in game was that tzimisce have to have a particular focus to truly ""finish"" an alteration, which they do not have time for in combat.
however, this isn't just about viscissitude! let's talk about Lasombra!
oh god am i glad my previous group of vtm super-power munchkins didn't discover this one. Obtenebration Level 3: Arms of the Abyss, page 189 of the CRB. i'll spare you all even more of a textwall and tl;dr it to the best of my ability
1 BP + a DC 7 manipulation & occult roll = successes in number of two-meter long tentacles with strength and dex equal to the player's obtenebration trait. if that wasn't enough, potence and celerity dots are also added to the respective stats! but wait, there's more! have some more BP you want to spend? you can increase the length of a tentacle OR increase it's strength or dex by one with another bp!
except it gets even sillier!
each individual tentacle has four health levels and can soak damage as if they were the vampire using their stamina and fortitude. they are vulnerable to sunlight and fire, as vampires are, but, yeah... i've seen some debate as to whether they have their own initiative or whether the vampire can control them on their turn (my reading makes me think its the latter) and use them to grapple and/or (clinch? it says constrict) for str+1 ! escaping is a contested dc 6 str roll and thats abt it.
i suppose other disciplines have silliness at this level (i've unfortunately seen what a 10 dice pool 8th gen 3 celerity dice swordsman can do) but this just seems to pack so much straight offensive power its unreal, especially when you remember that not only is this the world of darkness but most people are going to have shadows no matter what, so a single vamp could reasonably fend off multiple people with one action... at least celerity requires multiple BP and disciplines like presence need you to do prep work first ! wew !
to finalize this post i will admit im not a very great storyteller so if any of you have any solutions to this or want to point out some glaringly obvious piece of information that solves the problem(s) please let me know!
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